Torchwood - The Truth is you should Lie with Me

[xandra]

Song by: Say Anything
Notes: Do i really need any? I just always blame Astarte. But really she had little to do with it than the usual moral support.
Summary: "Give me something else than affection, swollen suffering fantasy of hate" Because really Jack and Ianto are not all hugs and puppies. Who would want that anyways?

Links:
AVI, XVID
IMEEM

Comments

[obsessive24.livejournal.com]

This is such a gorgeous exploration of the Jack/Ianto dynamic. I loved it. Your editing was so spot-on and beautifully-paced, and the effects work was also fantastic. I LOVE the ending, it pretty much sums up the 'ship for me. :D Fantastic work!

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

thank you :). When i heard this song it was just so perfect for them. That and i really wanted a reason to used the deleted scene from Meat. Oh there ship is so complex and unexplained in canon I just have to do it in vid form. and seriously they are fucked up, whats not to love about that ship?

[astartexx.livejournal.com]

*lets sparkling glitter fly all around*

This vid is so very, very cool. The song alone won my heart and fits perfectly for these two and I just love the way you used filters and how the whole vid flows together in a brilliant wave of anger, love, forgiveness and more impressive CGI than I remember from the show. I think it captures the tone of Ianto/Jack flawlessly.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

arent you just happy that CS3 love avs and sapphire effects lol. And the song, well i knew you were like it, to bad i didnt hear it before we did Baby Skin Tattoo. it fit the theme.

[explodeyy.livejournal.com]

Shit. This is waaaaayyy better than my version.
I absolutely love the timing and the sequences. It all fit so perfectly. And the clips you used are are great. Its like, its just... Well, i can't say no more since i have no other words to say.
And of course the song. Its been one of my top since a year ago probably. I always get all giddy and jumpy when i hear this song.
This is a magnificent video. Totally topped mine. ♥

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

Thanks and, uh, sorry? lol.

Yeah, i love this song (great minds, yay?) and when i heard it i just felt it was made for the fandom and them. Plus i really wanted to use that deleted scene from Meat.

Thanks again.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

Very nice. How did you get that deleted Meat scene to look that good? I used it recently, but I couldn't get it that clean. (excuse if dumb question, I'm a beginner)

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

thank you.

And no its a perfectly valid question, i played with the clip within an inch of its life, while cursing them for not putting them in the same frame size an ratio. Actually (opening my timeline) I didnt do much, in Adobe Premiere (CS3) i used some auto correct settings. (Auto Contrast, Auto Colors, Auto Levels). Nothing else i did could fix it. Hope that helps, of course if you arent using Premiere it probably doesnt.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

Lying in bed this morning, I remembered the DVD is out in the UK, so that may have been an even dumber question than I thought - are you there? I have a totally crappy downloaded avi file of that scene. DVD next month!

I only have IMovie06. But it may have some features like that that I haven't discovered.

BTW, I'm thinking about re-doing the vid that I used that scene in. Not that happy with it. Do you know anything about taking something down from YouTube and putting it back up?
Oh, you're on imeem. Do you like that better?

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

i have the 14 mb avi that was floating around, i can't find a better version i tried. Sometimes i wish i lived in the UK. if mine is better than the one you got let me know i'll upload it for you.

play around with your program, the best way to learn.

yep, its easy. Let me know when the video is done, i can help you thought it. I know how to take down a upload to youtube. Actually i'm on both imeem and youtube, but i hate the way youtube looks, imeem is better video quality. haven't been able to figure out youtube's high def opinion yet.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

My clip says 24.2 mb. I also have a cleaning program I should have run it through before putting in IMovie, but I didn't think of that until after. I cleaned the whole video, which did improve it, but not as much as if the clip was cleaned individually.

Hi def option: it seems to come on automatically if you have high enough quality. Mine all say it and I didn't do anything to make it appear. Assuming you mean the option to watch in higher quality vs. standard quality? I do like the way imeem looks.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

so I know its been a while, i got a better copy of the clip. Hope you like. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=25VLWPB1

[charmax.livejournal.com]

Their relationship makes so much more sense to me now. It didn't really mean much to me on the show beyond look at the pretty boys shagging. Now thanks to this vid I really get an idea that there is common ground and what it is they want from each other.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

Thanks. And now comes the edited version of my reply to your comment about Jack and Ianto. Sorry lol.

They make sense to me as I spent time analyzing, over analyzing and then stepping back and look at just the facts without my fangirl brain and then just forgot about Gwen and went from there. Really think about Jack/Ianto like Jack/Doctor. Not literally but the parallels as Jack attempts to become his own version of the Doctor but still has faults. Jack hires Ianto cause he's attractive and an enigma, just his type. Jack brings him in, trust him, ignores him on a personal level cause he doesn't want to get attached waiting for the Doctor and then Lisa happens. Just by the acting and the way uses the word "US" Ianto's betrayal seems a lot more personal, then say Suzie's. (Granted he's scared but still by then time he's telling Ianto to go down there and kill her, he's gotta be thinking she's no longer a immediate threat.) Mostly its because Ianto conned a Con-Artiest. That why Jack forgives him, wants to forgive him because of the Doctor. After Cyberwoman, basically he want save Ianto like the Doctor saved him, give him something to believe in. Jack plays WWTDD (what would the Doctor do). Except Jack isn't that Doctor and his failing is he's attracted to Ianto and Jack's only human. Ianto having a darkerside, like his own, makes him interested as well.

So now Ianto has become "post-meeting the Doctor Jack" version 2. Its not an easy step (the Countrycide, last snog glare and Jack not answering the question give me fangirl ideas) but Ianto starts picking up qualities of Jack, the things he likes. And like Jack with the Doctor Ianto develops a crush, Jack becomes a reason to get better and Jack is the one he interacts with mostly. Jack my talk to Gwen, but goes to Ianto for understanding because Ianto understands death and loss, which is what the final scene in TKKS is about. "One day were going to run out of spaces" saying that to Gwen she'd try to cheer him up with platitudes, Ianto learning from Jack tries to distract him with the fun things in life with a suggestive comment that even the first time i heard it thought they were going to preform timetravel experiments. Ianto is attempting, slightly failing, to follow WWJD (what would Jack do).

And after that it is clear Ianto is in training and coming up in the world as his confidant. In Combat he takes Ianto with him instead of Gwen, probably around this time also he learns about flathome as well. By the time we get to "Capt Jack Harkness" Ianto doesn't seem shy at all ordering around Owen and Gwen, in Jack's absence (just Owen decides to fight back). Shooting Owen he once again is following the rule WWJD.

So now at the start of "End of Days" Ianto is the loyal soldier but now is also standing up to Jack and really him saying No to him causes the others to follow. Also Ianto seems to be the one who knows what "Protocol One" is. And during the mutiny scene Jack treats him differently, he's the only one who Jack tries to bring back to his side. So skipping ahead to Jack in freezer, Ianto gets his own mourning scene but unlike Gwen who dwells with the body and is completely unhelpful (sorry bashing), Ianto is rebuilding. The correction of the handshake to the Hug to the Kiss don't really matter in the evolution of their relationship without the kiss its still the same effect, Ianto is forgiven and he wasn't sure if he was going to be this time.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

Then Jack leaves and comes back... and the transition from TW to DW back to Torchwood has so many holes i can see straight. I just assume that the Doctor went back in time to fuel up in Cardiff, from when he first meets Martha. Making it five days for her and long for Jack. But anyway, back to the boys. Jack has now been broken by the man he romanticized for so long. He watched the Doctor cry over the Master but treat him like garbage, only to go home to realize he's done to them what the Doctor did to him. But he learns from the mistake. Ianto asks the first question that Jack actually need to answer, the other want the person stuff, Ianto wants to know if he's sticking around or coming back for his shirts. He not bought over like Gwen with a quick joke. Ianto is obviously more hurt then the others on personal level, did he disappear but snogging him in front of them right before.

Jack and Ianto aren't madly in love, that don't know what they are, they have something, good, bad and not at all straight forward. Now that he's not leaving, he's willing to put down some kind of life again. Because of their issues starting something up with Ianto would be complicated. (another time I'll go into how it ties into that weird scene with Gwen if you want, its edited out as this is my Jack/Ianto, meta). Basics is he has feelings for Ianto and Gwen (and with Gwen there is much less baggage between them), but Gwen's engaged (he respects that) so he's going in for the messy complicated Ianto. And he doesn't know if Ianto wants him back which is why he so nervous asking him out. But Ianto though flustered and surprise clearly is not going to make it that easy for him and that becomes even clearer in "Sleeper".

The Jack/Ianto dynamic in "Sleeper" to me is Ianto letting Jack know, and the other know he's not a pushover, he's going to be a challenge. Frankly if he wasn't it would be as fun. I'm assuming he's still waiting for that date, Ianto's making Jack work for it. Then comes "To the Last Man" originally I thought the "conversation/kiss" came out of nowhere. I'm assuming that that was the first one since Jack has come back, cause Jack seems genuinely surprised by it. So anyway at first I thought it came out of nowhere but it didn't, it came out of looking at the pictures of the past Torchwood team and commenting on how they all died so young. Ianto thinking about his own mortality. When Ianto comes in, Jack is prepared for another hard "i'm not sure if i can trust you yet conversation" when he asks teasingly "would you miss me?". When Ianto gives him a straight forward honest answer of "Yep" the mood completely changes. I think the kiss is Ianto saying alright, i forgive lets move on and figure out what we are.

I have no idea what is happening in Meat. Well I do but that would be in my Gwen/Jack/Ianto meta I omitted above lol. Adam was straight forward and though they can't remember it at this point Jack knows Ianto well enough to believe despite the lie detector. Whatever issues they have they still have a connection and from Ianto mental reasoning Jack is a big part of who he is now.

Reset through A Day in the Death. Jack has no problem implying to Martha his friend that there is something with Ianto, Jack seems sure enough of their relationship. Ianto however is not sure what Martha to Jack, when he answers "Dabbling" only when she actually seems happy and not jealous does he seem to relax. And though it seems like "innovative and avante guard" were jokes to start with, the dazed expression told her more. Later with Owen when he tells him "Its not like that me and Jack." Owen isn't an outsider, he knows were he stands with him and he's always had to defend himself with Owen. So in short, if it’s dabbling to Martha and "no like that" to Owen "shagging". Not like that has to mean more then dabbling, but I'm still sure Ianto has no clue how to bring personal and work.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

The Wedding sticking strictly to Jack and Ianto has four segments. The pre-wedding flirt, Ianto showing he's not just Jack's Boy by backing up Owen, the telling "shut up Gwen getting married" car fight and the dance. First two are straight forward. The fight in the car is about Jack unresolved feelings for Gwen and Ianto being sick of it, but its time to work and that topic is on hold you know until the Dance. Unlike others i assume Jack doesn't have time to go out and have random hookups, not when there really isnt a need to so the only threat to Ianto's relationship with Jack is Gwen (Jack's list of things to do while she's gone goes in the Gwen Meta also). Cutting into the dance and snubbing Gwen has two purposed one to save them from themselves and the other is to publicly claim Jack and remind both of them she's married now. Also probably spite, I'd be pissed. There is also a third idea, that this isn't work this is personal.

Most of Adrift is the Gwen Meta to come later, if only posted for Astarte's sake. Its also about how Ianto has grown in the group that Ianto is the one that Jack will listen to no longer Gwen. Its a Gwen issue not them. Though we get the pretty scene interrupted by Gwen and Ianto going against Jack, its not about them personally, it about them professionally.

In Fragments (the present) and Exit Wounds Ianto looks like the one that keeps them professional while at work and Jack is the one that breaks it, the small hand over heart thing just after Gwen leaves and then pulling him into the hug after getting him out of the cell its the smaller things.

And, ah, Doctor Who actually once again gave us insight into them, more then I suspected they would. "The Solider in the bar" Ianto called him on it but didn't actually seem worried and dropped it in light of "Fuck the Earth has been stolen" more important matters. Later with the Doctor and Jack's double take, that was actually jealousy on Ianto's part and Jack knows it. So to correct above the Gwen's wasn't the only threat to Ianto, the Doctor is, but since they keep saying the Doctor wont be in Torchwood its not really an issue there lol. I can't tell if Jack's just surprised or upset by the idea. I'm just assuming it was bad editing and music that lead to Jack seemingly obvious to abandon them only for them to die. I just assume Ianto and Gwen were hiding it from him, so he didn't have to watch them die and Ianto's smile kinda gives it away.

But that ends the meta and where they are we don't know. And though i love have to put all this effort into my meta... I just want to know if I'm right damn it! Also I'm blaming Astarte for the length of this edited response. She encouraged it, even though she'll deny it. and sorry. I think this rant/meta was dying to come out and it might as well be here. lol.

glad you liked the vid and it helped you understand them better *runs away and hides*

[charmax.livejournal.com]

Xandra, I don't want to clog up your vid post so I'll email you when I've had a change to digest this.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

sure. I may end up cleaning this up and posting it again anyway. But staying up all night gets me going and rambling... sorry. I think it was to many story analysis classes in college.

I want to get bruised by you

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Nice editing and great use of the song. It's quirky, while still being serious at times. I love the section from 1:50-1:53. The quiet layering is beautiful.

[thrace-adams.livejournal.com]

Great vids. Fantastic pacing, and clips went well with the lyrics. Well done!

[thrace-adams.livejournal.com]

I'm back to ask you a favor. Is there any way I can get the Meat deleted scene from you? I want to use it in my vid so badly, but the DVDs don't come out in the US for another few weeks, plus I have no idea how to rip DVDs onto my computer. I have several copies on my hard drive but they are all really crappy quality and the one you used in your vid looks really good. If you would be kind enough to share, I would be VERY grateful.

Thanks so much for your time!

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

Haha, yeah sure. I don't have the DVD either or just got mine from one of the dls I'll be happy to give it to you. Because I had to resize it I tweaked the color/levels/contrast a bit. it doesn't have sound but I'll bundle it in the zip file too. I'm uploading i'll send you a message when its up.

[thrace-adams.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU!!!!!!

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

check you messages again.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

i sent the link using lj's message thing.

[dessert-first.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, do I adore this vid. The song is phenomenal--and the little "I'm up for it if you are, Handsome" is MADE for Jack/Ianto. It was perfect with that Meat outtake. Hee!

I love the fast-paced cutting, the great use of "this is not the way we procreate" and the literalism of that first "give me something else than affection." Both John and Gareth have such an amazing and hilarious range of facial expressions, and you've really made great use of them here. The vid really plays up Jack and Ianto's fantastic chemistry, the commonalities between their characters, and their connection--both the good and the bad of it. The ending is inspired.

[feather_qwill]

Really terribly awesome - and the "oh, fuck" was a perfect choice for and end-clip. <3<3<3<3<3

[sol-se.livejournal.com]

I absolutely loved this!!

Re: I want to get bruised by you

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[bionic.livejournal.com]

very charming song, and an even more charming vid! That was fantastic. That really brought me back and reminded me so very much why I love this ship.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I think it was a reaction to seeing one to many attempts at sappy Janto vid and hearing this awesome song that made me have to vid this so bad. And its what i love about the ship too, the history is just too much fun and complex.

thanks again.

[fodian.livejournal.com]

Really amazing work. This is analytical and thoughtful and the images fit perfectly with the themes of the lyrics. I'm afraid I'm not particularly articulate in vid-talk, but I can say that there were many moments that resonated with me emotionally, where I got a charge of "Oh, yes, that is so right". (Also, all the cuts of doors slamming and opening edited together with the beat of the music makes me gleeful.)

I've enjoyed your vids on YouTube (particularly Nine Crimes and the pure joy that is Complicated), and didn't know you had an LJ account until I was sent this link by a friend. I'm very happy for the opportunity to give you some well deserved feedback.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Don't worry about "vid-talk" we all just make it up as we go along. But yeah I was so happy when I heard this song cause it just seemed perfect for them and delightfully unsappy. And yay, resonating moments are always good, means I've done my job right.

(HAHA i knew someone else would appreciate my door montage! My favorite trick to get through those tricky bits without lyrics.)

Ah yeah, I'm not to keen on officially connecting my youtube account with the rest of me, trouble with some X-Files vids a while ago.

hehe, Complicated, it still makes me laugh just thinking about it. I just really wanted a video where I liked Gwen. Also to use all those all those rare and short Gwen and Ianto moments from season one. And plus I just love rare vid-pairings. And making 9 Crimes really made me want to make a Rhys/Ianto vid, lol. Maybe after next season...

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

That? Was awesome covered in awesomesauce.

[tearful-eye.livejournal.com]

i can't believe i haven't commented on this one yet! cause i downloaded this right when you first posted it on the vids comms

& i love, love, looove this! i completely adore the fucked-up-ness, but somehow still absolute sweetness that is this pairing. & your vid is just perfect for them, *sigh* so awesome - definitely in my fav-vids folder at the moment.

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

awwe, thanks. You know how hard it is to find songs for them that arent too depressing or too fluffy. Ah but was sexy, fuckup and all with gay themes, ah, perfect. It had to be done.

[greenapple.insanejournal.com (from livejournal.com)]

I enjoyed this.

[amchara.livejournal.com]

Oh, this is great! Really captured the unsentimental nature of Jack/Ianto, but still showed why they care for each other.

[fizzyblogic.livejournal.com]

Eeee, that was lovely!

[xandra-ptv.livejournal.com]

thank you.